[[lexus]]

Originally Posted by maasanova

You are the one adding in a bunch of extra nonsense about comic-book style plots and evil overlords.

My video edit makes no implications that that the CFR is what you are trying to make it sound like I say they are. In fact, I thought I made it pretty clear that this was a podcast that you could get freely from their website. Why did they put it on the internet? Well the CFR publishes a lot of stuff and, it is my opininon that they don't think that the average person, the cattle, would bother to read their boring white papers and three hour long lectures.

You didnt start this thread. The original poster of this thread obviously has ideas about how the CFR is an evil shadow government hell bent on creating the new world order bullshit. Just look at the topic title. He only uses your vid as an argument to support that.

[maasanova]

Originally Posted by lord_iske

Whatever bro I am not going to debate you because to be honest your mind is made up and would not listen to reasons no matter what logic I used.

You sound a bit like that guy who says "we can't debate these people." I can't think of a reason to take a vaccine for a virus that that top virologists agree isn't even a dangerous virus. Is that why you don't feel that you cannot debate me? Granted, I'm not really looking for a debate with as much as I am looking to just prove you flat out wrong.

Originally Posted by lord_iske

I was simply saying that the movie was biased and in my opinion twisted the facts to suit its own ends(much like the mass media does that you people so often like to protest against, pot meet kettle?)

Well, that is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. To tell you the truth you weren't the only one with that opinion, so fair enough, I'll accept that criticism.

Originally Posted by lord_iske

I also said that I agree the media is overplaying the swine flu, that does not prove some kind of governement plot however. I myself have taken the vaccine and I am fine. There is no logical reason not to get the vaccine.

Well, that was the whole point of my video so I'm glad we can agree that the mainstream media is overhyping the swine flu. I agree that my video was produced with an obvious slant but I don't recall anywhere where I was giving medical advise as to not take a vaccine, and again, since top virologists admitted that the virus isn't even that dangerous, I can't think of a single reason why one would get vaccinated after knowing that. Those are their words not mine.

Originally Posted by lord_iske

You took a harmless video about a panel discussing swine flu and twisted it to imply that there is an evil government plot out to force vaccines onto the american people.

False.

Again with the comic book conspiracy theories about evil plots. My video simply pointed out that Obama said that the vaccination program would be completely voluntary, but the State of New York tried to mandate the vaccine. That's not a false implication, that really happened.

And now the media is using cabbage patch doll manipulative sales techniques to trick the cattle into paying for a useless vaccine for a virus that top virologists admit isn't even all that dangerous.

It's disgusting, and I'm sorry that you fell for it, but I see no reason why the rest of the population should fall for it.

Originally Posted by lord_iske

There is no law as of now forcing the vaccine on the american people despite what you attempted to imply in your video.

Yeah, you're right, there are no laws, however there were policies and directives for mandatory vaccinations in several states - see here:

Judge Halts Mandatory Flu Vaccines for Health Care Workers - source New York Times Blog

A judge on Friday morning halted enforcement of a New York State directive requiring that all health care workers be vaccinated for the seasonal flu and swine flu.

The temporary restraining order by the judge, Thomas J. McNamara, an acting justice of the State Supreme Court in Albany, comes amid a growing debate about the flu vaccine.

Originally Posted by lord_iske

There is no evidence of a planned shortage staged by the government which you imply in the video, if anything the video says there will be enough to go around its simply a matter of distrubution and getting the vaccine to where it needs to be.

There is enough to go around no doubt, but hardly no one wants it, and they admit it.

You may go and continue your crusade now. But keep in mind we are not all idiots who will blindly follow people like yourself, just like we will not blindly follow the government. People are smart enough to look at the facts, unedited, and decide for themselves. We do not need or want to listen to propoganda, wether it comes from the media or private videos like the one you made. You would have better spent your time simply cutting the real video into sections and posting them rather than creating the twisted video that you did. Your answer to the media spreading lies was to spread lies of your own? Now that makes alot of sense. And make no mistake, it was lies and miss information in your video as I already showcased. The real video was fair in my opinion as they talked about some of the real facts about H1N1. Had you really been intrested in the truth you would have left the video alone. Posting links to the real thing after the fact does not negate the fact you created a biased video that used the same tactics the media uses to garner support for your side.

I still haven't quite figured out where the actual lies are. The main points from the video were 1. the suggestion of using artificial scarcity to trick the gullible into taking a useless, possible harmful vaccine, and 2. the the H1N1 isn't as dangerous as the media is making it out to be. Those were their words, not mine. I didn't make that up. Where are the lies?

All of this just sounds like someone who can't admit they fell for a scam, so they just want poo-poo someone else's efforts to warn others not to fall for the scam.

[lord_iske]

Originally Posted by maasanova

You sound a bit like that guy who says "we can't debate these people." I can't think of a reason to take a vaccine for a virus that that top virologists agree isn't even a dangerous virus. Is that why you don't feel that you cannot debate me? Granted, I'm not really looking for a debate with as much as I am looking to just prove you flat out wrong.

This point has been discussed to near death throughout this thread. I wont go into detail what has already been talked about but the fact is that while the virus is far from some kind of death plague it can kill people, even more so if it infects somebody with some kind of health conditions. By people refusing to take the vaccine on the grounds that "it wont kill me so why bother" they help to spread the virus to others who are at risk. Would it simply not be practical to just take the vaccine?

Well, that was the whole point of my video so I'm glad we can agree that the mainstream media is overhyping the swine flu. I agree that my video was produced with an obvious slant but I don't recall anywhere where I was giving medical advise as to not take a vaccine, and again, since top virologists admitted that the virus isn't even that dangerous, I can't think of a single reason why one would get vaccinated after knowing that. Those are their words not mine.

Again has already been discussed in this thread.

False.

Again with the comic book conspiracy theories about evil plots. My video simply pointed out that Obama said that the vaccination program would be completely voluntary, but the State of New York tried to mandate the vaccine. That's not a false implication, that really happened.

And now the media is using cabbage patch doll manipulative sales techniques to trick the cattle into paying for a useless vaccine for a virus that top virologists admit isn't even all that dangerous.

It's disgusting, and I'm sorry that you fell for it, but I see no reason why the rest of the population should fall for it.

I did not fall for anything, my vaccine was manadatory since I am in the military, I get vaccines every year on a variety of things. And I agree that people in such positions should get them. I find the idea of not having a mandate that requires emregency services, health care, and military personal to be vaccinated to be silly. As I said if your health care people dont get the vaccine and they are dealing with sick people they themselves have a high chance of getting sick and in turn spreading it to others including those who they treat. As as been said the chances that these people will die is small but the point is to try and prevent it from spreading because there are some who can and will die if exposed. I find this idea that people will forgo efforts to prevent the spread of disease simply because it is not overly lethal to be stupid to be honest.

Also as lex pointed out your video has already been used as "proof" of a government plot by the creator of this thread. Also look back and read some of the youtube comments the video got. Despite what you may have intended the video is adding fuel to the fires for those who believe the government is part of some evil plot.

Yeah, you're right, there are no laws, however there were policies and directives for mandatory vaccinations in several states - see here:

Judge Halts Mandatory Flu Vaccines for Health Care Workers - source New York Times Blog

See above.

There is enough to go around no doubt, but hardly no one wants it, and they admit it.

There are many people who do indeed want the vaccine. The problem is that we have people who try to discredit vaccines as "harmful" when you have a much higher chance of dying from H1N1 then they do the vaccine. As I said I know hundreds who have taken the vaccine and not one has had any ill effects. I do know several people who have gotten sick with H1N1 thats have not had the shot and one person died. If you where in my place what would you think? The whole anti-vaccine thing is silly since vaccines have been proven to be effective in countering many diseases.

I still haven't quite figured out where the actual lies are. The main points from the video were 1. the suggestion of using artificial scarcity to trick the gullible into taking a useless, possible harmful vaccine, and 2. the the H1N1 isn't as dangerous as the media is making it out to be. Those were their words, not mine. I didn't make that up. Where are the lies?

Your first point is wrong, The video never showcased an artificial scarcity, your "proof" was a comment made by one person which was followed by laughs and then the panel openely admits there is enough to go around. Forgive me if I dont put that much stock into it. And your second point is something everybody already knows. This is not the first time the media has hyped something up and it wont be the last. Also you are playing up alot of hype about the mandate and staged shortage when you have shacky evidence at best to support it. One example of new york trying to mandate health care workers and a single comment from one woman which is discredited by the panel openly admitting they have plenty to go around.

All of this just sounds like someone who can't admit they fell for a scam, so they just want poo-poo someone else's efforts to warn others not to fall for the scam.

The fact you think taking a shot to help stop the spread of disease is a "scam" disturbs me. The vaccine is not harmful. H1N1 can and does kill people(tho its few deaths to occur as a result of it as they do to regular flu). Taking the vaccine can help to stop the spread of the disease. Those are all facts. I see no reasons as to not simply take the vaccine. The argument "it wont kill me" is stupid, it can and will kill other people, do thier lives not matter? Or how about we take it just so that fewer people just plain old dont get sick. Why does a disease need to have a massive body count attached to it before we take actions to prevent its spread?

The bottom line however is that Obama and the federal governement have not passed nor do they appear to want to pass any mandate forcing the general public to get the vaccine despite the fact that getting the vaccine is a good idea. Some of the states have tried to mandate that certain individuals get the vaccine but that only certain people in certain states and in the example you described didnt the court rule against the mandate? Hence one of the key points of your video is wrong(or shall we say atleast exaggerated). There is no large scale effort to force the vaccine on people. There was also no real solid evidence in my opinion that suggested the government planned shortage, the video indicates they have plenty. I fail to see how one comment that was, in my opinion, said as a joke, equals proof when they went on to say the exact opposite. That does not make any sense. And the other point was something we all already knew. The video remains in my eyes a propaganda video that twisted and exaggerated facts to support a certain view point rather then convery the accurate truth. You are no better than the media because you stooped down to making use of the very same tricks and tactics.

[maasanova]

Originally Posted by lord_iske

Your first point is wrong, The video never showcased an artificial scarcity, your "proof" was a comment made by one person which was followed by laughs and then the panel openely admits there is enough to go around. Forgive me if I dont put that much stock into it. And your second point is something everybody already knows. This is not the first time the media has hyped something up and it wont be the last. Also you are playing up alot of hype about the mandate and staged shortage when you have shacky evidence at best to support it. One example of new york trying to mandate health care workers and a single comment from one woman which is discredited by the panel openly admitting they have plenty to go around.

I'll just say this and leave, 1) I always said, in this thread and in the video, that Lone Simonson suggested that they use artificial scarcity to manipulate people into taking vaccines. If you want to believe that she actually didn't say that, then that's fine you can believe anything you want.

Truthfully, I don't have any actual proof that there are enough vaccines to go around, nor do I have any proof that the CFR ordered the media to say that there weren't enough to go around, all I can do is just go by what is admitted in this video, which is that they have twice as much vaccines as they need if the entire population of the US were to take the H1N1 vaccine, and that they suggested just telling people that there was a shortage.


Seriously, I thought I was just stating the obvious here, but then again, everyone is entitled to believe what they want, despite the obvious.

Cheers.

[lord_iske]

Originally Posted by maasanova

I'll just say this and leave, 1) I always said, in this thread and in the video, that Lone Simonson suggested that they use artificial scarcity to manipulate people into taking vaccines. If you want to believe that she actually didn't say that, then that's fine you can believe anything you want.

Truthfully, I don't have any actual proof that there are enough vaccines to go around, nor do I have any proof that the CFR ordered the media to say that there weren't enough to go around, all I can do is just go by what is admitted in this video, which is that they have twice as much vaccines as they need if the entire population of the US were to take the H1N1 vaccine, and that they suggested just telling people that there was a shortage.


Seriously, I thought I was just stating the obvious here, but then again, everyone is entitled to believe what they want, despite the obvious.

Cheers.

As you just said, you have no real proof. One women "suggesting" somthing does not mean it was implemented. The panel did state as a FACT that they had enough to go around so I dont see how you came to the conclusion you did.If the idea was to lie to people that there was a shortage why would they admit on a podcast over the internet there is is plenty to go around? It would defeat the purpose of the lie when you tell the people you are trying to lie to the truth.

Its like I said you exaggerated and twisted the facts to suit your own ends, no matter what you try and say. While some of the points in your video where valid such as the media overplaying the virus many other points where simply hyped up by you to try and win support for your side. Explain how this is different than what the media does and why we should not mock you for being as much of a joke as they are?